The Entrepreneur's Road Podcast

Daniel and his TOP 1% Exit from Y-Combinator (Part-1)

• Season 1 • Episode 5

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Guest Background:


Daniel Kivatinos, a serial entrepreneur with a resilient spirit, co-founded DrChrono, a transformative platform in medical record management. His journey in the tech startup world includes overcoming failures and layoffs, leading to his determination for autonomy and innovation. Daniel's proactive approach and ability to seize opportunities during pivotal moments in technology led to DrChrono's success, ranking it among Y Combinator's elite exits. Now, he's at the helm of JustPaid.io, an AI-driven revenue collection platform, continuing his legacy of reshaping industries with forward-thinking solutions.

Guest Info:

LinkedIn: Daniel Kivatinos
Instagram: Daniel Kivatinos

JustPaid.io Info:

Website: JustPaid.io
Instagram: @JustPaid.io

Schedule a Live demo HERE 

Chapters

00:00:00 Introduction and Background

00:02:51 Initial Fun Question - The Matrix

00:11:20 Childhood and Early Influences

00:15:16 The drChrono Story

00:23:51 Learning from Startup Failures 

00:37:18 Entering a Whole New Industry - HealthTech

00:38:45 First Customer Acquisition

00:40:49 Scaling Dr Chrono

00:42:42 Customer Traction and Business Strategy

 00:49:17 Be a Test Machine Startup

00:54:49 End of Part One and Reminder for Next Episode

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Sam and Daniel Episode Upload 

[00:00:00]

[00:00:00] Introduction and Background 

[00:00:00] Sam: Hello to my dear listener. Happy new year. Who ever you are. I wish this year, that's where ever you are and what ever you do. You do it with love. Because if you do so success is yours. And that is the case for our guests here at the entrepreneurs road. Let me start by saying I'm so glad you're starting the year with me because today we have a special two-part serious episode featuring Danielle Kiva. 

[00:00:34] Sam: Tino's. The founder of Dr. Krono that it's successful, exit marked a significant win for Y Combinator. Placing them among the top 1% exits. Alongside companies like cous, Twitch, Reddit, and others. Danielle entrepreneurial journey. Began working in a startup with limited funding. Which ultimately failed. [00:01:00] Next step for him was working at another startup this time with a lot of funding. But unfortunately that a startup failed to. Which led to his layoff. Constantly questioning how he would do things differently Danielle year and for autonomy and the freedom to implement his own ideas.

[00:01:22] Sam: That's when he started Dr. 

[00:01:24] Sam: Krono, a platform that revolutionized medical record management and patient care. DAnielle has consistently demonstrated that innovation and timing are key to success. Which we will delve deeper into how entrepreneurs can identify and capitalize on timely opportunities. Today, Danielle, once again is seizing the opportunity. with his new startup. Just paid. Dot IO. An AI powered revenue collection platform for companies. In the first part of our [00:02:00] series, we delve into Danielle's initial struggles and the Burt off Dr. 

[00:02:03] Sam: Krono. Highlighting lessons crucial for any budding entrepreneur. The second part focuses on his corn venture, offering practical insights for listeners aiming to harness AI. In their business strategies delving deeper into the challenges of entrepreneurship and the future of AI. Let's get a start it.

[00:02:26] Sam: Welcome to the show, Daniel. It's so fantastic to have you here today. You've had quite a journey with am I pronouncing it right? Dr. Crono? Yes. Dr. Crono. Yes. To your new venture at JustPaid. io. So I'm really excited to dive into all these amazing journeys and learn about your innovative work now. 

[00:02:51] Initial Fun Question

[00:02:51] Sam: So I want to always start on a fun note. How does that sound to you? Sounds great. Great. Great. So Have you watched a [00:03:00] movie, Matrix? Years ago. I love that movie. Okay, so there is this like part where characters can instantly learn new skills through some uploads in their head, 

[00:03:12] Sam: so I want to ask you if you had the chance to instantly acquire new skill or a piece of knowledge and go really deep into something, what would it be and why? That's a really good question. I think understanding the best entrepreneurs in the world and seeing how they're able to scale at mass. So really getting into their head and understanding how they're able to operate.

[00:03:50] Sam: And this goes for like musicians, how are you so, how are you able to operate at such like a high level without burnout? [00:04:00] And, you know, the skills like that, you know, there's a bunch of like, sounds so silly. I was looking at this one musician and I really respect this musician. And he has a winery, he has three bands and he's like world famous.

[00:04:16] Sam: And I'm like, how do you manage your time? When you have a family, and you have all these things going on, he owns multiple businesses. Like, if you look at like, even Kim Kardashian, it's like, how does she do it? Like, really? Like, really manage all of that, like, massive infrastructure, and still like, not burn out?

[00:04:39] Sam: And like, generally enjoy life? Yeah. Right? Yeah. So maybe they really love like journey of being a entrepreneur and all those burnout. Maybe it's not burnout to them. Maybe it's just like they're really loving the journey, right? And there's like a regimented, they don't talk about it, but there's [00:05:00] this regimented life.

[00:05:02] Sam: That they have that I'm trying to understand myself so I can help my new company scale and also Mm-Hmm, have those same like, enjoyable moments, right? Mm-Hmm. . I mean even you look at just some of the best founders in the world that have like large public companies, Nvidia, like the founder, right?

[00:05:24] Sam: Mm-Hmm. . He's still there. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a part of him that like loves it. I see it. I look at the founders and I'm like, he really genuinely loves what he does. You know, there was some crazy watching a talk from the founder of NVIDIA and he has, I don't know, maybe 30, 40 direct reports. People that like report directly to him and I'm like, it's probably more than that.

[00:05:48] Sam: I forget what happened in the interview, but I'm like. He said something really insightful, like these people are so self driven that like he doesn't have to manage them so well. And I'm like, he's, [00:06:00] he was able to scale NVIDIA to such a huge level. And he looks like he's in great shape. He looks like he's living life.

[00:06:08] Sam: I mean, of course he's stressed out. He actually, the thing that I really respect about him is he's humble and he understands like failure is right around the corner for Nvidia if he doesn't work hard. And I think that's another thing that I really respect about some of these people that are hugely successful.

[00:06:24] Sam: They understand is to come and go. I mean, sure, he'll be wealthy for the rest of his life, but his company would be hurting if he doesn't like build the next AI chip. Right. He's probably has thousands of people like working on these AI chips. Maybe we watched the same interview from him,

[00:06:42] Sam: but like, exactly. What do you mean by regiment life? I don't know myself because I'm not at the scale at like what they're at. But I see that this like regimented life where All of these successful people have a certain way of living [00:07:00] that allows them to do multiple things, have multiple things going on.

[00:07:05] Sam: And I'm always analyzing like the most successful people. And that's where I'm like, if I was in the matrix, how do I download those? Those like those processes, like take the top 50 entrepreneurs and how do you upload that into your head and really get into their head? because these people are operating multi billion dollar companies.

[00:07:27] Sam: How do they not fall apart? Like, how did they structure their business appropriately? How do they structure their day where they're able to like scale the business without them doing all of the work? Well, I think you did with Dr. Crono it is scaled pretty large with, 17.8 million patients using it and facilitating booking of 69 million appointments and 11 billion of medical [00:08:00] billings.

[00:08:00] Sam: So I I mean, I feel like it's already in your head, like how you can scale and all of that, but you were among also like top 1 percent exits from YC. Yeah. Yep. That's right. I guess. What part of my success is always questioning myself and like, what is better than that, if that makes sense, like some people might be happy with whatever's in your head, right?

[00:08:28] Sam: But what is better than that? I think there's a competitiveness that like, I'd say a lot of entrepreneurs have that, you see. And I think that that's where that maybe comes from. There's this like underlying subconscious competitiveness from all the entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley. I feel like they're all fighting a good fight.

[00:08:48] Sam: They really want to do good work. But you know, for me, yes, I scaled that business and it became hugely successful. But even in the process of building it and while it was successful, I always felt [00:09:00] like there was more to do, if that makes sense. And yeah, You know, what does it look like? What is more look like?

[00:09:09] Sam: What is that? Like, how do you build big businesses that are sustainable for like decades? Right? I mean, that's where, where, when a founder leaves a company, you really see, like, if the company has a good culture, if there's like a good, team in places. If there's a good methodology in place, you know, everybody talks about Steve jobs.

[00:09:36] Sam: What I liked what he said when Walter Isaacson, like years ago was writing a book about him. You know, Steve was asking Steve jobs, like what was your most proudest product? And he, you know, he didn't say the iPhone. He didn't say the iPad. He said the Mac, it wasn't that he said it was the, the, the people that were there.

[00:09:55] Sam: that created the creative products make that company [00:10:00] amazing. And for me, I'm like, he built a team that could last for a long time doing amazing things. Yes, it's a big organization. Yes, all that. But I do think that there's something there that makes them nimble and smart and creative and, the best people want to work there.

[00:10:20] Sam: And when you're there, you know, you're making an impact in the world, but easy come easy go if you don't have that culture and it's like a founder leaves a company just kind of falls apart but like yeah sorry i'm kind of like deviating from your question a lot but no i mean that's why i always ask about culture in the end of my Podcasts from all the founders because culture is so important and founders need to like really develop their leadership skills, really make a company that everyone is collaborating and setting it up for success for future people.[00:11:00]

[00:11:00] Sam: So I absolutely agree with everything you said and we're going to go to the discussion of culture for sure. But I took a lot of polls this time from like in various founder group that I'm part of and was like, you know, Daniel is coming and this is all his experiences. So everyone is actually really excited.

[00:11:20] Childhood and Early Influences

[00:11:20] Sam: And so this questions are all from my audience, and I'm really excited to dive into them. Before we start with all those questions really quickly. I would love to know a little about like where you grow up and your childhood and then we're going to start. Bye. Bye. Yeah. So I, I grew up the, the word blue collar, I grew up in a blue collar home where my dad he worked for the New York City housing authority, which was uh, it was an interesting place because New York was like, there was always a hustle and bustle in New York.

[00:11:58] Sam: And uh [00:12:00] you know, I uh, I don't think it was a wealthy family. It was more just government based job that my dad had. We relied on him. But lived on the outskirts of New York City, so it wasn't quite in the city. So it was like I always would go into the city and see what he did and saw the hustle and bustle of the city. Um,

[00:12:18] Sam: My mom had uh, she was a artist, so she actually created dolls for a while, like Barbie, those sorts of dolls. Um. Cute. Yeah, and that, that, that for me was like a really creative thing because she would do all of these interesting projects, like she did stained glass and she did all these like, she, she did sewing like she was kind of like a jack of all trades um, just doing like jobs, but she did have a corporate job. 

[00:12:45] Daniel: Like she worked, um, as a teller at a bank. And then my dad worked in the government. Basically he worked on elevators all day. So there's actually people that do that. It's such an odd thing to mention, but there are people that literally fix the elevators all [00:13:00] day for people. And my dad would go climb up.

[00:13:04] Daniel: In the shafts of the elevators. It was actually really scary. Yeah, I've been to these shafts and I just remember being like looking at him like pulling parts off elevators while they were like moving Yeah, it was kind of unreal. Wow. Wow, but you know, I think It's incredible. Growing up in that environment like you realize how important elevators are and like all the parts Go into it.

[00:13:32] Daniel: So he would work for low income families that like were in these tall buildings. Mm hmm. And I remember this one one time I went into this building with my father and We probably walked an hour up to the top of the building. So like when the elevator is broken, it's broken. So basically most of his day was like, how do I bring parts to the top of the building without an elevator?

[00:13:58] Daniel: So we would just walk up, you [00:14:00] know, those circle stairs, you'd just walk up and up and up. And then we'd get to the top and he would just honestly look around. It almost looked like a car engine and he would just. Figure out what car parts it needed and I remember like how important like it was for like the people in the building because a Lot of them were elderly You know, it was like actually an important job and I realized the stress he was under because he had to fix it fast you know, you have all you know thousands of people living in these buildings and like No four elevators break at the same time.

[00:14:30] Daniel: You're not in a good spot. That's 

[00:14:32] Sam: From personal experience I'm not a senior citizen, but like I have a little back problem So basically it's very hard for me. I live on third floor and sometimes our elevator goes out and I'm like, Oh my God, like, how am I going to go grocery shopping? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:48] Sam: I just want to, like, take a moment and thank, you know, the people that work on elevators and make it, work for us, 

[00:14:55] Sam: like, it's crazy how many people would suffer if there was [00:15:00] no elevators. Yeah. But thank you so much for telling us a little about your childhood. So let's start about, , your journey with Dr. Crono. So how did that start? 

[00:15:16] The DrChrono Story

[00:15:16] Daniel: Yeah. So, I mean,

[00:15:17] Daniel: Everybody goes through school and they kind of think like there's this like really great job. At least, this is what I thought. Like, my parents put me through college. Yes, I took on some debt and it was, you know, it was really rough in college. But I think, you know, going through the college experience, I thought that there was like this perfect job for me.

[00:15:38] Daniel: Right? Like, oh, I just graduated. I'm going to find the right job and it'll be great. And, you know, I did kind of hop around in college also, like I did art at first, then I did psychology, um, then I hit upon computer science and I thought it was really challenging, so I kind of just hopped around. I had a [00:16:00] liberal arts degree, then I got a psychology degree and a computer science degree, then a master's degree.

[00:16:06] Daniel: I was going to go for my Ph. D. And, uh, I just remember thinking, let me just experience the world a little bit before I do that, because that's a huge commitment. And I would see the PhDs, and they would, in these computer labs, going for their, like, computer science degrees, and something was off about that experience for me.

[00:16:32] Daniel: I just felt like academia didn't have The meaning I wanted, so I needed to like, wait to get my Ph. D. Um, anyway, I went out and started to look for a job, applied to lots of jobs, and just got rejected time and time again. didn't interview well, was not good at it. I'd also freeze up. I was actually really [00:17:00] horrible at tests.

[00:17:01] Daniel: So like, you know, if someone put a test in front of front of me, I'd be like, this isn't the job for me. So the test really like would turn me off. Um, and then one day I went into this one startup and it was in New York city and startups were not cool. Back when I was like, you know, this is 2000, 2004, 2005.

[00:17:25] Daniel: People were not doing startups back then. Anyway, I go into this startup, and I don't know why, but the, like, one of the, the technical guy, who was doing all of the servers, coding everything, he just liked me. For some reason, he's like, this guy feels like a good fit for, like, our startup. And my plan was not to go into startups.

[00:17:48] Daniel: My plan was to get a job. Right. A job where I could like support myself and make a living. And, uh, you know, the big corporate companies just didn't like the way that I was, I [00:18:00] would say maybe I wasn't like what fit their profile, but somehow the startup community felt like I was a good fit. So the guys 

[00:18:08] Sam: like, what was that between like the corporates and the start?

[00:18:13] Daniel: Yeah. I mean, there was, there was a lot of like things that were off about me. I was, first of all, I was a musician also, so I had really long hair. In 2004 hair, like long hair was not in. Really? 

[00:18:27] Sam: I think long hair is always cool for guys. I don't know. When 

[00:18:30] Daniel: you're interviewing at like Bloomberg. Yeah. You know, and it's a corporate financial technology company.

[00:18:38] Daniel: You know, they were just like, this guy doesn't seem like the right fit because he's wearing, I wasn't wearing, Business shoes. Like, I remember like, if you weren't like, like, like dressed exactly the way that they wanted that influenced their decision, 

[00:18:54] Sam: that's actually sad in my opinion. Yeah. That's the way that the world worked.

[00:18:59] Sam: Yeah. I [00:19:00] think like today, even it's works sometimes like that, but I think it's like, look at what, what talents they lost, yeah. So, um, and there is like so many people that they have artistic side, I don't understand why corporates not accept the other parts of their employees.

[00:19:16] Daniel: I mean, that was just probably one of the things that were off about me was my long hair, the way that I dressed. I remember going to Microsoft and this is back several years ago. They flew me to their head HQ. And I'm like, Oh my God, it's Microsoft. This is like the big time, like I gotta not screw this up, right?

[00:19:36] Daniel: I need to like get in there and like, this is like where things happen. And uh, I just remember being like really put off by the interview because like what they were asking me had no meaning. What was that? You know, they had a big whiteboard. Whiteboards are great. I actually like the whiteboard, but they were like, if you have a bridge and you can't cross the bridge, like, and then they had this like answer that they were looking for, that was like [00:20:00] exactly what they needed from me.

[00:20:01] Daniel: Hmm. And I just was like, what's the point of like, if you want to know exactly the answer you want. Mm-Hmm. , like you're asking me to do software development . Can we just like get to the computer and do the software development and not talk about whiteboard analogies? That's interesting. And I think they got that vibe from me.

[00:20:23] Daniel: Because I'm like, let me show you what I can do on the computer and not on a whiteboard because Yeah, if you're gonna make me do all this whiteboard work, you just have a bunch of people with whiteboards everywhere. Yeah, I love whiteboards. I just like the questions they were asking were so out of Left field.

[00:20:40] Daniel: And I just remember thinking if I ever started a company, I'm going to make everybody code in front of me. And that'll be the test. Yeah, yeah, like, because that's what they were looking for. But instead, they were kind of beating around the bush like 

[00:20:54] Sam: They wanted like one specific, , right, like the answer in their head, which is like, it's, um, [00:21:00] I interviewed, , Alex Budak book, um, it's called like being a change maker.

[00:21:05] Sam: And it was talking about like how leadership can be like, you tell your employee a What is the goal? And exactly, like, make it super specific. For example, , we, , sell 500 of this, . , let them do the how, so, the what make it clear for them, but the how, let, let them, make their own creative, Um, choice on how to get there and trust them, which is , then comes with, not micromanaging.

[00:21:34] Sam: But okay, very cool. And then what happened from there? 

[00:21:38] Daniel: Yeah. I mean, it was a slew of those interviews, right? Those that were kind of off. And then, you know, I think what I liked about the startup, and maybe this is why I got hired at a startup. Was, I felt like I could make an impact. It was one guy running a whole entire startup.[00:22:00]

[00:22:00] Daniel: That was it. And I'm like this, I feel like even if I do like a minimal amount of work, it is like exponential in a startup versus like you don't get that feeling it like a larger company. And I think that really like excited me where I was like, this guy needs me because if I help him. Oh my God, it's going to be like an exciting ride because like, you know, every little thing I do like will make an impact.

[00:22:29] Daniel: And you know, I think he felt that in the interview with me, but he also liked my quirkiness. He was like looking at my shoes. They were not like, I don't know what I was thinking I was wearing the wrong shoes, but he liked it. Like for the first time someone was like clicking and I'm like, all right, this is.

[00:22:45] Daniel: someplace I kind of fit with this person and I can learn from him because he has a PhD in computer science and like maybe he'll teach me a thing or two about like how to run a company and I think that really like [00:23:00] we both connected on that level and the job you know another thing was it wasn't about the money for me it wasn't about the money I took the job like it could have been Half the salary and I would have just been like, yes, let's do it.

[00:23:14] Daniel: So kind of threw a number out there. I was like, that sounds great. I'll be there when you need me. And, you know, he's like eight, 8am next week come into the 

[00:23:23] Sam: office. Yeah. It's, it's really crazy how many people would actually, for a work with a purpose, something that resonates with them, 

[00:23:34] Sam: They're happy to lower the salary. Um, there was a study done that showed people are willing to lower their salary by 23 percent to get a job that is meaningful. Um, which reminds me of that. . So how did that get into the Dr. Crono? 

[00:23:51]

[00:23:51] Learning from Startup Failures

[00:23:51] Daniel: Um, I mean at that first startup I really learned a lot because One I had to actually run all the Ethernet [00:24:00] cables in our office.

[00:24:01] Daniel: Mm hmm. I remember just literally go climbing into the ceiling And like running Ethernet, like as we would just turn out, oh, those cords, the cords in your wall, you plug it in, not the wifi stuff, but the ether, like the, I had to run the whole network for like the whole office, which was really nice. Yeah.

[00:24:21] Daniel: That was kind of like, it went from that to like actually running the database to like coding. And then, but. What was interesting about that company was I feel like it was too early for its time. That's okay. But I mean, what I mean by that is like, they had an idea, which is basically YouTube, Udemy, Udacity, like all the MOOCs, Massive Online Courses.

[00:24:50] Daniel: It was 2004. I just don't think people were ready. Also like, It was just, the model wasn't quite right, like, the pricing model and all of that, and people just didn't go [00:25:00] online really to, like, learn, like they do now. Now it's just like a thing. It's just like, if I need to learn something, let me go online.

[00:25:06] Startup 1 Mistake 

[00:25:06] Daniel: It was not, that thinking was not really there in 2004. So the company really struggled, and um, I felt like, you know, people were leaving, and it, it just, the culture was not working, and it was just, it was a stressful environment. Um, and in that process, I remember thinking they never had enough engineers, like if they really wanted to have a go of it, you have to have it like more than like a couple of people.

[00:25:36] Daniel: Like, why would you have 12 people in a company and two engineers for a software startup? Right? Like, that for me was a big. I just was like, why, why wouldn't you have more people like working on the software to make the software to make the online courses better? I just never understood that part of the company, [00:26:00] but company didn't work.

[00:26:03] Startup 2 Mistake 

[00:26:03] Daniel: I loved a lot of the people that worked there. I moved into another startup right after that, and that startup immediately got acquired by a larger startup. And I just was like, that took me for, by surprise, but this larger startup raised 24 million and, you know, I saw like a true startup with a lot of funding, give it a go.

[00:26:28] Daniel: And I was like, Whoa, my first startup was like hot, you know, it's just, it didn't have like a lot of that funding to like even try. So it was running on fumes. But then this large startup, I was like, this is crazy. This is like, I just remember looking around at their office and seeing like monitors all over the place and people working really hard.

[00:26:48] Daniel: And, but even there, I felt like there were some things that were off. So I was like, okay, communication in the startup wasn't the best. It just wasn't. It was like, what am I working on to make [00:27:00] an impact? Like, why am I doing this? Is it really going to work? Like people were not holding town hall meetings.

[00:27:08] Daniel: You know, I think a lot of it was like. A lot of funding and a lot of chaos at the same, a lot of chaos at the same time. But I took away from that experience, like you need good leadership. Like it needs to be, there needs to be good leaders. If you're going to have that amount of cash, like, you know, and so 

[00:27:28] Sam: absolutely.

[00:27:28] Sam: And a lot of like, people don't have that. Leadership skills, like maybe they were never a leader in their previous roles and suddenly they have people to oversee and, I have like 100 percent faith in people that they don't have those leadership skills as long as they work on it, you know, So what do you think?

[00:27:52] Sam: Like, I mean, I've seen so many startups like exactly what you just said, like, for example, um, [00:28:00] I don't know wrong strategies, you know, um, like not like setting up a good culture because of like the lack of leadership. So what do you think like people need to do? I don't know, like, even if they are, um, Aware of that themselves and maybe like employees don't want to say anything.

[00:28:19] Sam: Maybe they notice but they're scared to say something I don't know like how Startups can handle that right? But what what are your thoughts? 

[00:28:31] Daniel: That second startup also went bankrupt. Oh my god, so All that what you're the question you're asking is all that knowledge I had in my head I'm like, what would I do if I was running it?

[00:28:43] Sam: Yes, that's a great question. And 

[00:28:46] Daniel: that was where I said, I would do this. I would do this. I would do this. I would do this because it didn't happen in my last 

[00:28:52] Sam: startups. Yes. Especially like when you have a bad leader you exactly want to ask yourself, like, how can I [00:29:00] not be that? Right. So that's, that's a great question.

[00:29:03] Sam: You 

[00:29:03] Daniel: asked yourself, I mean, startups fell all the time. I don't know if it was the leader's problem. I don't know if it was. I can't blame one person. That's the thing. It wasn't just the leaders. There was a lot of like wrong dynamics to create that. Maybe the market wasn't the right timing and all that, but I was like, what could I do to minimize my risks of failure based off of this past experiences in that startup and in that startup?

[00:29:28] Daniel: And, you know, I got let go from the second startup and they were like letting everyone go over time. And I was thinking. Okay, I got let go. What do I do? Right? And I had this knowledge in my head at this point, like working in two different startups, two data points, and I'm like, I have 50, 000 that I've saved.

[00:29:53] Daniel: I'm a 30 year old guy. Do I want to buy a piece of property? [00:30:00] And get another job? Do I want to put all my money into Apple? And get another job or do I want to try to do something and live off that 50, 000 for as long as I can and try to make something of myself because whoever is running the ship may not do a good job again.

[00:30:22] Daniel: And I might be looking in a year or two and I took all of those strategies and applied it to. The startup that was dr chrono. So all of that like past history and it was like painful. There was, you know, a lot of good people that worked at these startups and they sad to see the startup just like walk away and everybody just go find something else.

[00:30:46] Daniel: But you know, like rule number one is like, find people that you can work with. Right. Like at least for me, it's like, find people that you, that you can work with that are technical at the [00:31:00] base level. Of any startup, you need, like, really good technical people that can code. Um, at least this is my way of thinking.

[00:31:10] Daniel: And I had a former roommate in college who was probably one of the best coders I've ever met in my life. And what I mean by that is, like, there were projects in school that, you know, the professor would say, work on this for a month, and when you're done, submit it in a month, right? I remember my roommate would be, have it done in like seven hours.

[00:31:34] Daniel: Wow. Yeah. And he'd be like, I'm just going to hang out the rest of the month. And I remember like looking at him and being like, this guy is abnormally good at coding. 

[00:31:44] Sam: Is that your co founder? 

[00:31:46] Daniel: Dr. Crono. Yeah. So, you know, we started talking and he never worked in a startup before. And I had all of the startup knowledge.

[00:31:56] Daniel: But he was a good coder, like probably one of the best [00:32:00] coders I've ever seen in my life. So I'm having conversations with him and talking about the experiences. And I couldn't verbalize everything early on, like, you know, what the strategy would be for, like, building a big team. But I just kind of knew that you needed, like, the right ingredients for a startup.

[00:32:18] Daniel: And you, you need a product. So if you have a co founder who can code. Product can, like, come from nothing, almost. And I think this is part of, like, the great world we live in today, where you don't need 50 million dollars to, like, buy servers and to put it, you know, in a server farm. That, that's like 25 million dollars right there.

[00:32:46] Daniel: And then you need to hire all this, like, stuff and, you know. There were no iPhones back then. You know, but anyway. All I needed was a good co founder. That was like the first ingredient. And, you know, he was committed. He really just [00:33:00] dove in with me and said, I'm going to work on this with you, which I really admired because he kind of didn't flinch and he wanted to do it.

[00:33:06] Daniel: He was really all in. And, uh, culturally, like I wanted a good engineering culture and like he kind of was a pillar for that. Did the other companies have that? Yes, but you need to keep it like you cannot have those people just leave. So you have to like value them. And I think this is something Silicon Valley is really known for is like value the engineers because the people that create the product, if you don't, if they're not there, the product will just kind of fall apart over time.

[00:33:40] Daniel: And I see Silicon Valley like over and over, like respect the engineers and say, what are we doing? How do we do this? You need a lot of cash to stay here. You need a lot of equity to stay here. We need to respect your time on the East Coast. It's really at least to, you know, 19 nineties, early two thousands.

[00:33:59] Daniel: They were kind of [00:34:00] put in the corner and that was just the culture. And I think my co founder wanted to not be part of that culture in New York. And we were both in New York at the time. And, uh, we just started meeting a lot. And like, it was very consistent and, you know, for me, the, the, the sign that we should really do this is if he quits his job at Bloomberg, right?

[00:34:28] Sam: So he did quit his job. He quit his 

[00:34:30] Daniel: job at Bloomberg to work on this company. And that immediately put me into high gear, like, I am responsible partly for his decision, so I have to make this work. 

[00:34:44] Sam: Were you giving him income from no, no, 

[00:34:48] Daniel: no, it was like, uh, it was hey I have some life savings. You have some life savings You know, and in my head I was mapping out like I can't take taxis I'm not gonna be going on [00:35:00] vacations.

[00:35:00] Daniel: There will be no fancy dinners. I need to work on weekends Like it was all being mapped out in my head like what I needed to do Mm hmm and he was very aligned with that like that's why it worked so well because he was like I'm not going to take, you know, my 50, 000, his 50, 000 and like go to Florida and like relax for a month.

[00:35:21] Daniel: Like his mind was like, how do we map this out to get to success? Um, So yeah. And in the early days we met a lot and spoke a lot and there was a lot of dialogue. So like another core ingredient of a successful startup for, even from leadership down, it's just communicate over and over and over.

[00:35:42] Daniel: The more communication you have, I feel like a broken record, but like, it works. And when a leader doesn't show up for two months, like, or if you're not communicating with like the people you work with, Your company will like slowly fade into nothing. And I [00:36:00] think, you know, there's too much communication, but there's the right amount where I feel like people need to know what people are working on.

[00:36:07] Daniel: Um, but, you know, for that startup, um, we just met every day, every day. And I remember, you know, we, we took one day off a week, which was Sunday. And that was like catch up day for me, like I did my laundry. You know, I just took care of, like, life and that sort of thing. But, you know, when you have 50, 000, how do you make that last?

[00:36:35] Daniel: I mean, this was what was in my head, and I'm like, how do I make that last? I have rent. I'm living in New York City. I could bike over to the, like, One thing that my co founder really wanted us to have was like rented desks. So we would rent these two desks out in a shared office space. There was no WeWork back then.

[00:36:54] Daniel: And then we would just go, you know, sit at these desks and uh, just kind of [00:37:00] just like work. And no one was using our stuff. Like, people think startups are made and it's like exciting. It was just like literally sitting there for like days. Nobody using stuff. And you just kind of like. looking at the space and being like, okay, this doesn't feel right.

[00:37:18] Entering the Medical Space 

[00:37:18] Daniel: That doesn't feel right, but this feels right. And you kind of just bounce around a lot. And then, you know, the one thing I did like was the medical space. Cause it has a lot of meaning. So like we were sure of that, like we're going to be building software in the medical space. We were both very aligned on that.

[00:37:39] Daniel: But you 

[00:37:39] Sam: were not, like, had the industry expertise. Was that something new? Um, Did you had any, I mean, I guess, knowledge on healthcare before that? 

[00:37:50] Daniel: I don't think like that. I'm like, what is the problem at hand? And like, let's just tackle it like day by day. And I call myself a turtle. [00:38:00] It's sound so silly, but this is the way I view it.

[00:38:02] Daniel: It's like a turtle can get to the ocean. It's not as fast It's like a like a raccoon running But if you can like consistently walk to get to where you need to be, you'll get there. 100%. And I think a lot of people are impulsively like, oh you don't have the skill set. I don't Think like that. I'm like, what do we have to get to the destination?

[00:38:24] Daniel: Exactly. Acquire those skills along the way. 

[00:38:26] Sam: Yeah. Yeah. I think anything can be learned, you know? Yeah. Especially in today's world where you can just learn things very quickly and chat Gigi P helping you out. Yes. But, um, And then you tapped into the, um, the health markets. 

[00:38:45] First Customer Acquisition 

[00:38:45] Daniel: Yeah, I mean we were I wouldn't say tapped in we were just like trying everything . I remember installing like Ethernet again into like a doctor's office. He's like I need I Need my office set up. Can you set it up for [00:39:00] me? And I'm like, yeah, we'll do that So we would set this one doctor up and he had a whole office and we would just set his computers up But he's he started to use our software Even though it wasn't perfect.

[00:39:10] Daniel: He's like I'll use it because of that He didn't pay us. What's that? 

[00:39:16] Sam: No, I said, Oh, I think that's, that's nice. I mean, it's what he didn't pay you, but 

[00:39:22] Daniel: we weren't looking to get paid. I was like, what, what can I learn from him to help make us a better company? That's a 

[00:39:28] Sam: good view to really understand your target audience without really, at first, 

[00:39:33] Sam: wanting anything from them. Like that's still, you know, I mean, of course, like if you can monetize it, at some point, that's the goal, but I think the focus should be just understanding your 

[00:39:43] Daniel: audience. Yeah. And that for me, that was a really good experience, but that happened countless times over and over again.

[00:39:50] Daniel: I remember even hearing like one doctor in Brooklyn, uh, someone broke into his office [00:40:00] and You know, back then, like all your medical records are in the office. Yeah. It wasn't in the cloud. It wasn't secured. So like, he called us and he's like, I would like to use something that's protected in the cloud.

[00:40:13] Daniel: That makes sense. I mean, it does now, but like back then, like, yeah, there were a lot of break ins cause he was like in a bad area, I guess. And like, so like people were stealing laptops and desktops and like anything in there, the doctor's office. So like. The doctor wanted cloud software and I'm like, cloud software, check.

[00:40:34] Daniel: Like for me, that was like, that can scale like little glimmers of like what can scale, like what would apply to all like physicians across the world. Right. Yeah. So, 

[00:40:49] Scaling Dr Chrono

[00:40:49] Sam: And then like that turned into Dr. Crono.

[00:40:52] Daniel: Yeah. Over time we really like. made the software work for our experiences. So like it wasn't [00:41:00] like a mapped out, like here's our plan.

[00:41:04] Daniel: They want exactly it kind of like grew into the product that it became, which was really nice cause it was a feedback driven product. Like it was a lot of experiences and what do you need as a doctor? I do think that there were, like, red flags along the way, or like, bad experiences, that what I mean by red flag or bad experiences, if some, and, and this is what comes back to me, would this scale?

[00:41:33] Daniel: Yes or no? I would talk to a doctor about one idea, would this scale? Can I use what you're telling me as a doctor and apply it to the world. Like, just, I, that's the way I kept thinking about it. And like, you know, you get some people that want something for them. And just the one person. Mm hmm.

[00:41:56] Sam: That's an interesting question that you would actually, you would go and ask your [00:42:00] target audience to help you figure out if I wouldn't tell 

[00:42:02] Daniel: them that. Oh, you didn't? No, I wouldn't tell them that I wouldn't tell them, but I would just like hear them and in my head as they're talking and I do this in my new startup.

[00:42:10] Daniel: It's will this scale? Okay. Okay. As they're giving me ideas and like their, their problem. 

[00:42:17] Sam: Or is it just a one person problem? 

[00:42:19] Daniel: Right. Right. I mean, there's a lot. Yeah. 

[00:42:22] Sam: If you can shortly tell me what Dr. Kono does. And then like I mentioned earlier, how many like, you know, people using it.

[00:42:34] Sam: I mean, it's still like, you know, it's still alive. I mean, you're no longer with it, are you? Yeah. But it's still like live. 

[00:42:42] Customer Traction

[00:42:42] Sam: And, um, like the audience really wanted to know. That, what strategies did you find that are like really effective in gaining that traction and acquiring your customers in the early stages?

[00:42:58] Sam: Right. And at what point? It [00:43:00] was like, okay, like it's all set for gaining more and more, right? 

[00:43:05] Daniel: I mean, I, I don't think I used any strategy that wouldn't, it would work in other startups. So these are all strategies Silicon Valley uses. I think a lot of them are more well known today, right? Like. Do things that don't scale at first, right?

[00:43:20] Daniel: And ask yourself those questions like, Will this scale? Um, I think also looking towards the future. And what I mean by that is like, where will we be in 10 years? And it's hard to get out of the mindset of like, we're here today. And I'll, I'll give you like an example, like, I don't know if you guys ever go, if you've ever been to Blockbuster Video or like Tower Records or like Virgin Records, like they were not asking the right question when they were in the thick of it, [00:44:00] which was what do people want today?

[00:44:02] Daniel: They want CDs. They want tapes. They want VHS. They Movies on, you know, these physical devices and we're making money that way. If you are in the thick of it for the day to day, I think that's bad for like a startup. You need to think like 10 years out, like, and it's, it's, it's hard to do. And I think this is kind of.

[00:44:34] Daniel: Counterintuitive, but if you're building something for the future, there's like glimmers of like the future, like, you know, like 100%. And, and I think, why is Apple still relevant today? I remember the day that they removed the headphone jack. Like people were disgusted, livid, angry. Right? Like people [00:45:00] couldn't believe that.

[00:45:01] Daniel: How dare they remove the headphone jack. I'm gonna buy an Android. Like they were just like furious. I don't think Apple was thinking, What do we have to give our customer today? They were thinking, What does the customer want in seven years? That's 

[00:45:21] Sam: really good insight, yes, 

[00:45:23] Daniel: yeah. And it's very hard to think that way, and it's very like, you have a visceral reaction.

[00:45:29] Daniel: Like, like, with Netflix. Like, how dare they put the movies online? I need my DVD. Like, people had a visceral reaction, like. 

[00:45:41] Sam: That sounds so silly when you say, yeah, exactly, yeah. Like, people don't like change, but then like, it's inevitable. forward thinking is so important. It's 

[00:45:52] Daniel: really important, but it's easy to say it's hard to do in practice.

[00:45:56] Daniel: And I, you know, yeah, I know Sam Altman. He's a [00:46:00] great guy. In 2016, he was giving talks at Y Combinator about AI. Wow. To me, to others saying, this is the thing we have to think about. And like. When people are thinking that far ahead, you're like, Oh, of course. Now it's 2023. Yes. Smart guy. He was, he was running around talking about AI in 2016.

[00:46:25] Daniel: And I was like, I didn't, you know, you'd kind of processing it and you're like, he's seeing something I'm not, let's see if it pans out, like, you know, but I think that's part of like what every startup has to do is like move towards the future. Before others do, because if you do that and blockbuster video stays here and Netflix is like already in streaming, it had change happens so quick and you know, you think it's not going to happen quick, but it just [00:47:00] happens in the flash of an eye.

[00:47:02] Daniel: Like people questioned Google like Where's your AI? Right? It's like, Oh my God, like the king of like search, like you see like immediate change happens so quickly if companies, I think Google is set up to fight and to like build and to try to make something amazing. A lot of companies are not at all. And that's when you see like a company just like fall.

[00:47:30] Daniel: Yeah. 

[00:47:32] Sam: There was a report I was reading that, you know, um, the, the 500 list of like the biggest companies, like there's only like a few of them that lasted, , and then a lot of them that are non existent now because they couldn't keep up with the changes, which is so important for corporate to make sure they are innovative and, uh, there's a loss of like.

[00:47:53] Sam: Corporate venture capital that invest in other startups or corporates that have an innovative arm.[00:48:00] , thank you for taking us there. Um, I think like you did great with the timing and forward thinking as well with Dr. Crono because like it was when first iPad came out.

[00:48:11] Sam: AWS became more, mainstream. Um, then, so your timing was perfect. , that's really great stats. You notice that forward thinking and how it's important and you're still like taking it, um, to our startup now. 

[00:48:26] Daniel: I think when the iPad came out, that was a big differentiator for us because we were the very first company on the iPad. So you were at a, okay. Very first. And looking back now. Why wouldn't you have an iPad app? Like, but back then, they were, everyone would say, Why would I have an iPad app?

[00:48:50] Daniel: Like, what's the point? Like, you know, I think there were some really good companies doing stuff there, like, Pandora [00:49:00] and Netflix were on there so fast. It was on the iPad, like, the first week. Wow. But healthcare A lot of the companies there are just not tech forward. Mm. Did 

[00:49:12] Sam: you have to convince your customers then that to use iPad for 

[00:49:17] Be a Test Machine Startup

[00:49:17] Daniel: Yes and no.

[00:49:18] Daniel: I think some of them immediately got it. Mm hmm. I mean, if you think about it, it's like

[00:49:26] Daniel: Back then, you go into a doctor's office and you remember those walls of like those Yellow folders and like they'd have like, you know, K and search the K's and to find my last name pull up my medical record That's just the way that it was done But then, you know, some doctors would be like, hey, I'm in Brooklyn.

[00:49:44] Daniel: I Need like to get my stuff in the cloud and then you'd have doctors who'd say hey I actually want to like see my medical records at home Others would like want to not just have one physical paper document But they wanted, like, the whole [00:50:00] staff to be able to see the patient. Right? For us, being on the iPad was a test.

[00:50:08] Daniel: And I think every startup is a test machine. If you can crank out very small tests very quickly, and understand which tests are successful, and which ones are failures, you can, like, build a significant business. And when I talk about like tests, I mean, putting those, running the ethernet was a test, right?

[00:50:34] Daniel: I got one doctor. He used our software. It took eight hours of my life, but I got them. Okay. That's a test. If I build on the iPad, it's a test. How many doctors are actually going to use my software? A lot, and it wasn't intentional. It was just test, test, test, test, test, test, test, like, and I think this is where like, you know, people think, Oh, open AI.

[00:50:59] Daniel: [00:51:00] Yes, of course, they're successful. I think they're a test machine and they're very smart at it. And I think it's ingrained in that company because of Sam Altman. ChatGPT was an example test. It was a test. They just threw a test out there and then boom, it was like, Oh, this is working. So. Um, you know, you have to create a lot of fast tests and see what will help drive users to use your product, right?

[00:51:29] Daniel: That's yeah. And I think the iPad was a test that just worked and it helped us get a lot of like really good coverage and really good users like for that company. And I think. It's just so apparent today that everybody has a phone in their pocket. Like, everything should be in your pocket. It's so easy to say that now, and like, people just like, agree with you.

[00:51:52] Daniel: But back then it was not the case, where they were like, This device is too large. It's just a big iPhone. I don't get [00:52:00] it. It's if I drop it, it breaks. If a sick patient touches it, it's infected. The battery life is probably not good enough. Like, do you know if it's secure? One after it, like people would just have these like arguments, but one after one, like people would buy a, you know, an Android device or an iPhone, like one by one, right?

[00:52:18] Daniel: Like. And then they're like, well, I kind of need my banking on my, I need this on my phone. Oh, I need all of my music on my phone. I need all of my photos on my phone. I need, you know, all my friends on my phone. I need my social networks. It just became a thing. And it was, you have to hit those. There's something called the S curve.

[00:52:37] Daniel: I don't know if you ever heard that term, but you hit this point where like, there's this inflection and something becomes adopted very quickly. If you can hit the S curve at the right moment with the right product, your company takes on a life of its own. And we were testing for a long time. Like, there were [00:53:00] a lot of tests.

[00:53:00] Daniel: We built a lot of stuff. But it was When you get to that right place, right time, right team, right idea, you know, it wasn't luck. It was just Tests become a test machine to how long 

[00:53:16] Sam: did you take those tests until like one two years and I 

[00:53:21] Daniel: met in 2008. 2009 started building like aggressively. 2010 April 2010 the iPad comes out.

[00:53:32] Daniel: But I remember thinking like. I just remember thinking Steve Jobs just announced this new device.

[00:53:42] Daniel: Maybe it'll work. Put it, put it on there. Let's build it. Let's do it quick. And it was our Saturday weekend project building on the iPad. It was a weekend project. And then iPad comes out. We launch our app immediately on the app store. It's immediately like [00:54:00] in the app store. Every doctor in the United States.

[00:54:07] Daniel: who bought an iPad, only had one medical record to find. So, you know, right place, right time, right idea. And doctors were like, I'm at home, I just, I'm excited. I got my iPad. I need medical records on my iPad. Let me download it. That's and it was like, oh there it is. There's the company. Yeah, and then that was One of the one of the many many many tests so 

[00:54:33] Sam: keep testing and be forward thinking Yeah, and yeah, you're and make sure it's like testing fast and your customers will come hopefully, 

[00:54:46] End of Part One and Reminder for Next Episode

[00:54:49] We have reached the end of the first part of our episode in the next segment, Danielle will share insights on developing a forward thinking attitude. Seizing [00:55:00] opportunities at the right moment. And we'll offer guidance on upcoming trends in AI. He'll also provide numerous practical tips for budding entrepreneurs. Plus For those who participated in our polls, we have a special surprise that will be revealed in the next part. Make sure to subscribe and set a reminder for next Thursday to not miss this. Remember the entrepreneur's road is a community of successful founders, investors and experts. All eager to share their secrets and support your journey to success. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram. 

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